Can you help me please!

[Pittishead]

Hi Pips,

I'm new around here, but could really do with some help!

I've been shooting a Winstar 1 with 34lb Winex Limbs 70" bow, Cartel stabiliser(3" extender 30" rod with bomb and weights on it) and Acc 3-28/500 30 3/4" arrows was about 42/43lbs on the fingers.

I had no problem hitting 90m/100y! (And end of long rod did not obscure the target)

Now...The problem!

I have just upgraded to a Hoyt GMX riser...Love it...Just broke my PB and shot a 581 Portsmouth on sat...But...And it's a big but the long rod now obscures the target completely at the longer distances!

Now i have made a few changes since moving to the gmx, mainly changed my anchor position to less side and more front, and shortened me arrows by 3/4"
so now 30", I could probably take another 1/2 - 1" off as the clicker is a fair way off the riser as well.

I have cranked up my GMX as far as it will go...and i'm only getting 38lbs on the fingers now...So combo of shorter draw length and hoyt bows not cranking up as much has lost me a lot of lbs.

But shoots sweet, so imagine my shock when I tried to move up from 70m to 90m and the front of the rod completely covered the target!

Now bare in mind my Long rod set up is pritty short by most standards, and i have friends who are shooting setups much longer than mine 34" plus extender, and with only 32-34lbs on the fingers, and have no problems obscuring the target.

I even tried a 28" rod, and it still covers a bit of the bottom of the target,
I don't really think you can get much shorter, this just doesn't seem right!

I called Perris to see if they had any ideas as to why this might be happening...No luck,

so i'm putting it out there in the hope someone might have the answer?

Cheers Lee

P.S. Sorry for the Essay

[DHBowman]

HI pittshead

You seem to have an interesting problem. From what I gather the end of you long rod obscures the target face. Would it be possible to see a picture of your setup in profile because what you say is happening shouldn't as both the long rod and the sight bar are parallel to each other and should interfere.

I shoot about 42 on the fingers and have a long stabiliser and never had this problem even a 100 yards

Have you retuned your bow for the shorted draw length and drop in poundage etc as my coach says change one thing changes everything.

James

[Whitehart]

Hi Lee

You spoke to Bert I over heard the call.

It's not one we come across so much these days quite common a few years ago, but you have shortend your draw length by quite a lot (nearly 2") and in doing so dropped 4/5lb in draw weight and this has reduced the working efficiency of the long limbs hence the need to lower your sight pin.

The proper answer is that you need some new medium limbs to work with your new shooting style. But it is also worth checking your bow tune/arrow spine/point weight and making sure that you are anchoring under the chin not up the face a bit thinking its under the chin (quite common) At the same time make sure that in changing to a new anchor point all the other form bits are still correct such as standing up straight not trying to meet the string when its drawn back and using the back etc all these are magnified at the longer distances.

[Pittishead]

Cheers guys,
yeah bow is tuned fairly well (I think) bare shafts at 20y landing in the 10/9s with the rest of the arrows, and bit to the left at 30m, Just shot my pb at portsmouth round, and just missed out on 6 gold at 70m the other day. I have it with plus 5mm on top limb
and 24cm bracing height to center of button, which may sound high to some people, but for 70" they recommend 22.5 - 24.5cm

I have heard some people saying the GMX shoots well with neutral or negative tiller...Don't know if this would make a difference(Maybe with the GMX 990tx limbs as well?)

WhiteheartFB, What draw length would you move up to a 70" bow, I used to shoot 68" when i first started, but found the finger were getting a bit crushed, hence when i got my Winex limbs i went for the longer ones...But now i've shorterned my draw lenght you think i could go back to 68"?

[Pittishead]

I'm guessing also...If i used 68" limbs that were rated the same as my 70" limbs, I would also gain a couple of pounds as well?

[Whitehart]

Originally Posted by Pittishead

WhiteheartFB, What draw length would you move up to a 70" bow, I used to shoot 68" when i first started, but found the finger were getting a bit crushed, hence when i got my Winex limbs i went for the longer ones...But now i've shorterned my draw lenght you think i could go back to 68"?

You seem to be shooting well so this appears to be a kit issue more than anything else.

Well now to open a can of worms and differing opinions - I hesitate to answer

I would say minimum for 70" bow 30"+ and closer to 31"

But it can depend on the type of limb and its make up especially the Draw Force Curve.

But what do I know, we have people insisting on 70" bows with 28" draw lengths and low poundage just because thats what the rest of a club use or a top international archer, then moan about trouble at longer distances. You can only lead a horse to water...

Now wait for all the usual I shoot 70" ...... with no problems (see final paragraph)

I find finger pinch an interesting one as I draw 30" 68" bow but have shot 66" with no problem, sometimes it is a problem with fat fingers most of the time it's about finger placement on the string.

Yes under 30" I would go back to a 68" bow no question, or stay in your case with 70" if finger pinch is really an issue, but you will need heavier limbs to compensate, at a guess 2/3lb per inch below 31" but no where will you find that quoted just somthing I have found from my experience, but in the end only you can try it out and see what works best for you, everyone is different.

Cheers
Andrew

[moo-mop]

Once when this my long-rod suddenly started obscuring the target I realised I'd got the limbs the wrong way round to normal and the tiller was way way out (sight mark down, bow kicking up, ie these limbs obviously were not that well matched in endogenous tiller). Unless tiller is your cause your only solution is heavier limbs etc - I find the longrod obscuring tends to happen at around or after the time you run out of sight mark, but I guess you are unfortunate.

[Pittishead]

Yeah sight pin right down at 9.9 - 10.0 on me Shibuya, and back in hole number six!

Can't believe i'm gonna have to buy new limbs after shelling £400 on a new riser :-(

[its my party and]

An unusual problem indeed! There has been a thread on here quoting Alan Wills saying the GMX performs very well with a negative tiller of 1mm!!!
Changing the tiller from your +5mm which is quite a lot may change your long rod position and maybe move it out of the way at full draw! Also as you have changed your anchor point and not wishing to be rude but do you by any chance resemble Bruce Forsythe in the chin department or have an exceptionally long face mesurement from eye to chin? Your more side on anchor may have been higher. Just some things to consider looking at when your next shooting!

[Whitehart]

Originally Posted by Pittishead

Yeah sight pin right down at 9.9 - 10.0 on me Shibuya, and back in hole number six!

Can't believe i'm gonna have to buy new limbs after shelling £400 on a new riser :-(

You could always reverse the sight so that it is on the inside of the handle. As you know its not the risers fault but the drop in draw length.

Like IMP has mentioned does your longrod move up a lot when you draw the bow up.

[Pittishead]

Looking into getting some second hand limbs around 40 - 42lbs 70"
I tried some 38lb Winex 68" yesterday but they just didn't feel so nice as my 34lb 70",
and even with the higher poundage and shorter limbs It was only 41lbs on the fingers with the bow crancked up full...So think i'm gonna have to go 40lbs min and take it from there!
Anyone got a nice set of G3s, M1s, Extremes, or Winex's for sale :-)

[Carbofast]

One of our Pro staff recently changed to a GMX and had to cut 2" off his longrod so he could see the target. He has 48lbs on his fingers. I am guessing the angle of the GMX bushing could be slightly different. I don't have one so cant comment, only speculate.

[JohnK]

As I brought up the negative tiller issue in the mentioned thread, I should say again that Alan was only commenting about the GMX with 990TX limbs, and said it was something to try rather than the only setting that should be used.

Back on topic - you discovered that the difference between Hoyt risers and others is that to get the marked weight of a limb you should set the bolts halfway in on a Hoyt riser, as opposed to all the way out on most others. That, combined with your shorter draw, has definitely caused this problem.

As for the weight rating on 68in limbs compared to 70in limbs, you should get pretty much the same poundage when drawing identically rated limbs to the same length, assuming you aren't drawing well under or over the recommended draw length range. Whether you see much speed difference between a 68 and 70in bow also depends on the limb design (shape of the recurve) and the exact length you're drawing to.

Ultimately there's no substitute for trying a set, either belonging to a friend or at a friendly shop.

I suppose the only good news is that it is possible to get bargains on top limbs. Winex are pretty cheap if you can find them these days, and some UK manufacturers have Sale lists.

Good luck

[mf78]

The other alternative is to change arrows to something lighter. ACE's are a nice step up from ACC's and will give better sight marks. You sound like you're shooting well but then again if you're changing anchor points and draw lengths a set of new arrows might not be the best plan.

[JohnK]

Actually, I know someone looking to shift a pair of 70in 40lb inno limbs. Drop me a pm if you're interested and I'll try to get you in contact with him