Spinwings

[aquatoo]

Can anyone tell me, or tell me where to look, the reason that compound archers don't use spinwings while the recurve shooters swear by them? Is it a fashion thing or is there a difference in the fletching requirements between the two disciplines?
If this has all been covered before just tell me where it is. Thanks

[aim-for-the-yellow-bit]

Some compounders do still use them, but not many.
I think it's mainly to do with clearance.
It may also have something to do with the fact that compounds have much higher draw weights & less paradox. Therefore, their arrows don't need 'straightening up' so much, help to get longer distances or behave better in windy conditions.
The simple truth may be that if you don't need spin wings, you don't use them...they're a bit of a faff!

[buzz lite beer]

It's been covered before, no real reason not to use them with a compound other than I'd imagine quite high maintenance (arrows should be in theory be hitting off one another and sustaining more damage with a compound), and Chris White did after all shoot Britains 1st 1400 using Kurly vanes and I'm sure that if he ever started using them again their popularity would increase with it. No doubt you'll find other people have had different results but spinwings (with no offset angle from a recurve) always give me quite substantial improvement on sight marks over even the smallest/lower profile plastic type vanes either straight or offset.

[Exarcher]

'Conventional' fletchings on arrows shot from a compound spin more than you might imagine. 'Inkystu' did some high speed video of my arrows leaving my bow a couple of weeks ago.
Shooting 3x Flex Fletch FFP187s Ofset by 4 degrees (not helical) on my Protours caused the arrow to spin approximately 20 full revolutions in the first 10 mts.
I was concerned that too much 'forward' energy was being turned into rotational energy costing me downrange speed and sight marks so I fletched 3 arrows straight..... They landed about 9" lower at 90mts and didn't group as well................

[T101]

thats interesting exarcher( i take it u mean the straight fletch landed lower etc) as i've always used about a 1 degree offset, but often wondered about an increase, do u gauge the angle by eye or is there an easy accurate way i am missing?

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by T101

thats interesting exarcher( i take it u mean the straight fletch landed lower etc) as i've always used about a 1 degree offset, but often wondered about an increase, do u gauge the angle by eye or is there an easy accurate way i am missing?

Hours of calibration and marking up my Bitzenburger.........

Nah, I originally stuck them on on an angle and then measured it afterwards !

But like everything I do I marked the jig up and recorded all details in my little black book.

Yes straight fletched landed lower in the target..... seems to defy the laws of physics as I understand them !

[BanditMK2]

Originally Posted by Exarcher

Hours of calibration and marking up my Bitzenburger.........

Nah, I originally stuck them on on an angle and then measured it afterwards !

But like everything I do I marked the jig up and recorded all details in my little black book.

Yes straight fletched landed lower in the target..... seems to defy the laws of physics as I understand them !

This in interesting. I just refletched some X10's with no offset and now worry they will be crap? 4 digrees is quite a lot on such a small shaft though?

PS I tried spin wings but found they were too much hassle as I was always fixing them due to them getting shot up

[LunkShooter]

Originally Posted by Exarcher

Hours of calibration and marking up my Bitzenburger.........

Yes straight fletched landed lower in the target..... seems to defy the laws of physics as I understand them !

Nope - those laws have never been defied ;-)

Assuming that launch conditions (speed/angle) are the same for both types, perhaps the spinwings straighten the arrow quicker thus the integral of drag with respect to velocity of the whole arrow (rather than the vanes alone) is lower over the course of the whole flight. Or maybe the straight vanes are heavier. Either way or something else, the truth is in there somewhere...

[BanditMK2]

Originally Posted by LunkShooter

Or maybe the straight vanes are heavier.

This could well have an impact on sight marks over a 90m

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by LunkShooter

Nope - those laws have never been defied ;-)

Assuming that launch conditions (speed/angle) are the same for both types, perhaps the spinwings straighten the arrow quicker thus the integral of drag with respect to velocity of the whole arrow (rather than the vanes alone) is lower over the course of the whole flight. Or maybe the straight vanes are heavier. Either way or something else, the truth is in there somewhere...

All arrows were fletched with conventional 'straight' vanes. The originals were fletched with a 4 degree angle. The others I refletched straight to see if I was losing sight mark and they landed lower in the target and didn't group as well.

[LunkShooter]

Originally Posted by Exarcher

All arrows were fletched with conventional 'straight' vanes. The originals were fletched with a 4 degree angle. The others I refletched straight to see if I was losing sight mark and they landed lower in the target and didn't group as well.

Then it looks like some variant of a)

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by Wizard

That is interesting and strange Exarcher. It makes no sense you would think unless maybe the spinning arrows create some sort of 'floating' phenonomen that actually creates less drag. Have my doubts about straight fletching making the arrows go lower.

For compound archery the recommended offset for fletches is 1 degree not 4 degrees by those at the top who have experimented. Just metioning that in case those reading this thread get the idea that 4 degrees offset is the go.

Intesting...... Who are 'those at the top' and where is this research documented ??

I can assure you the straight fletched were grouping 9" lower than the 4 degree fletched. Witnessed by another 1380+ shooter who was 'interested in my experiment'.

[buzz lite beer]

Out of intrest I wanted to see what 4 degree fletching offset looked like on a shaft as I've never used anything that high.
I've just tried and I can't for the life of me get a fletching on at 4 degrees on an X10, either end of the fletching simply doesn't make contact with the shaft, how do you manage on your Protours ??

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by buzz lite beer

I've just tried and I can't for the life of me get a fletching on at 4 degrees on an X10 either end of the fletching simply doesn't make contact with the shaft, how do you manage??

I haven't tried it on X10s. On Protours it's probably the maximum angle achievable with 187s, but they do stick along the entire length of the fletch. I shot lots of big scores using 3-28 ACCs with helically fletched EP23s. I'm not sure at what point the downrange arrow speed is noticeably affected by making the arrow spin more....... it would be a brave man to put a chrono a metre or so from the target at 90m !

[Exarcher]

Apologies to Aquatoo for hijacking your thread. Tried spinwings a few years ago and almost immidiately went back to straight as I couldn't get them to group as well at long distance and maintainance was too time consuming.

The best fletch I ever tried was the original Flonite vanes, Straight, Light and Ridgid (fletched at 1 degree). The fact that I needed well over a dozen matched arrows to get me through a days shooting due to shattered fletchings was a problem! I spent hours refletching arrows through the night between rounds of a two day shoot but the results were very good indeed.