Arrow Selection Pro-Tours V's Navs

[Exarcher]

I’m recently back to the world of Bows and Arrows after a 10 year break…… I re-equipped with the best gear I could afford on my budget. I aquired one of last years Hoyt Vantage 8s, 60 @ 30” set to 58.5 @ 29.5" and, after much deliberation a dozen Easton 28.5” 420 X10 Pro-Tours with 120g tungsten points. Things have been going well with several 1350+ FITAs with a high of 1386.

I’m in experimental mode at the moment…weaning myself off my beloved Cascade 8 release onto a Just-B-Cuz, so rather than ‘wear out’ my Pro-Tours in ‘practice’ I bought some 430 spine Easton Navigators (28,5” 120g points).

No matter what I do, The Nav’s outshoot the Pro-Tours, even in a wind……. I tune and tune the bow to the Pro-Tours for flight and best group then just shoot the Nav’s and no matter what I do they group and score better…….. Today in practice with a moderate / variable wind

3 dozen @ 70m with the Pro-Tours : Score = 346
3 dozen @ 70m with the Nav’s : Score = 349
3 dozen @ 70m with the Pro-Tours : Score = 349
3 dozen @ 70m with the Nav’s : Score = 351
3 dozen @ 70m with the Pro-Tours : Score = 347
3 dozen @ 70m with the Nav’s : Score = 353

Does the 10 spine units make that much difference ?…. any suggestions why a ‘superior’ arrow is being consistently out-shot by it’s ‘inferior’ sibling ? Surely the Nav’s sit higher on the Trophy Taker 1 rest with a No 10 spring steel launcher and should be ‘less tuned’ than the Pro-Tours ? Any comments and or suggestions, other than the obvious.... shoot Nav's are welcomed !

[T101]

according to Easton spine selector 29" '60lbs suggests 380 pro tours, reckon its what i would go for. or perhaps the p.tours are a bit worn v's the brand new navs? u could try weighing the p.tours dude. i've found just a few grains diff can effect groups significantly. and yes i do think 10 gns on the shaft could be a factor.

[Bald Eagle]

Quick. somebody phone Coolhand, there are some X10's going cheap!!!

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by T101

according to Easton spine selector 29" '60lbs suggests 380 pro tours,..........

........ and yes i do think 10 gns on the shaft could be a factor.

Measuring my arrows the Easton way, they're nearer 28.5" and my bow is set to 58.5 lbs so I've edited my original post. The Easton charts showed the 420 to be optimum. Archers advantage shows, with my bow speed, the 420's to be very slighly on the stiff side of optimum. I borrowed both 420s and 380s before buying....... the 420s flew and grouped better.

The Pro-Tours and Navs are matched to within 0.1 grains, the Navs are 10 grains heavier. The sight marks are the same to within a mill' The Nav's land 2-3" lower than the Pro-Tours at 70m.

With regard to the 10 spine units difference, if anything, it's showing the weaker spined arrow to work better..... even though I have never tuned the bow for that arrow.... I continue to tune for the Pro-Tour

[Harrison Ooi]

Why don't you just stick with the Nav's??? I would be happy to be getting higher scores with cheaper arrows.Isn't that the idea? Cheap stuff, high scores?

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by Harrison Ooi

Why don't you just stick with the Nav's??? I would be happy to be getting higher scores with cheaper arrows.Isn't that the idea? Cheap stuff, high scores?

The Nav's match or better the Pro-Tours up to 70m but don't group as well as the Pro-Tours at 90m.... the groups just spread out of all proportion. It may be a clearance thing as I really struggle for a sight mark at 90m and need to drop my sight a couple of mill' for the Nav's at 90

[Jerry Tee]

You could try coming down to a point weight of 110 or 100 grains that would give you a better sight mark and stiffen the arrows up a bit. If it does not work all you have lost is a few piles.

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tee

You could try coming down to a point weight of 110 or 100 grains that would give you a better sight mark and stiffen the arrows up a bit. If it does not work all you have lost is a few piles.

Yes but at £150 a dozen the piles are pricey ! I borrowed 3 x 110 grain Tungsten points and tried them in the Pro tours... I gain about 7" on the target at 70m but the group opens up into a horizontal line across the target...... something I'm sure I could sort out with a bit of tuning..... but the weaker spine 430 Navs are going better than the 420 Pro-Tours so I don't think I want to stiffen the arrows.

I only bought the Navs to shoot whilst I shoot hundreds and hundreds of shots getting used to the new release, not really careing where the shots go, just concentrating on the execution of the shot...... and to have in reserve in case I ever have to shoot on straw bosses and A frame stands again !

[T101]

is there any rule that prevents you switching to navs at 70m in comps? i think it might be allowed??

[bimble]

As long as you show the judges all arrows to be used at the equipment inspection you can switch, so if you are grouping better at 90m with the Pro-tours and 70m with the Navs shoot them that way... though it is certainly interesting.

I took have started shooting my Nav FMJ's at practice to save my X10s and found they were grouping better at 80yds than the X10s (not tried further yet) so looking at a similar situation.

[Bald Eagle]

If you are having trouble reaching at 90m with 58 lbs something is wrong!! and if you have to drop your sightmark for Nav's, a lighter arrow, then there is definately something that needs looking at.IMO

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by T101

is there any rule that prevents you switching to navs at 70m in comps? i think it might be allowed??

None........at all as long as they have been presented at equipment inspection and all arrows shot in one end are identical.

10 years ago I had one bow set up for 90mts and then would change bows for the remainding 3 distances.... I used the same arrows throughout.

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

If you are having trouble reaching at 90m with 58 lbs something is wrong!! and if you have to drop your sightmark for Nav's, a lighter arrow, then there is definately something that needs looking at.IMO

The Navs are 10 grains heavier ! so some drop in sight mark should be expected.... even if they sit higher on the rest due to their larger diameter.... this becomes more evident at 90mts.

The sight mark problem is self inflicted and is down to my preference for a high anchor point, so nothing is wrong..... I can always pull my sight extension in towards my riser if clearance is a problem.

The Pro-Tours shoot great.... 1386 aint bad..... I'm just 'p155sed' off that the Nav's score more when all my efforts are ultimately aimed at shooting the Pro-Tours !

[Jerry Tee]

Originally Posted by Exarcher

Yes but at £150 a dozen the piles are pricey ! I borrowed 3 x 110 grain Tungsten points and tried them in the Pro tours... I gain about 7" on the target at 70m but the group opens up into a horizontal line across the target...... something I'm sure I could sort out with a bit of tuning..... but the weaker spine 430 Navs are going better than the 420 Pro-Tours so I don't think I want to stiffen the arrows.

I only bought the Navs to shoot whilst I shoot hundreds and hundreds of shots getting used to the new release, not really careing where the shots go, just concentrating on the execution of the shot...... and to have in reserve in case I ever have to shoot on straw bosses and A frame stands again !

Except at 90 meters, if you can improve the performance of the navs at 90 meters and keep the performance at 70 and down.

[Exarcher]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tee

Except at 90 meters, if you can improve the performance of the navs at 90 meters and keep the performance at 70 and down.

If the Nav's out-perform the Pro-Tours at all distances once I'm totally in control of the release and I've finalised the bow set-up, rest assured, I'll be using them !